An ill-reasoned and unoriginal post, offering human conclusions as biblical truth. A little more exploration of scripture, and understanding the difference between scripture and the writer’s conclusions about scripture would be useful.
Thank you for your feedback. I would like to hear your comments or feedback about whether or not miracles still exist today, using Scripture of course to draw the conclusion. From what I read, and supported with Scripture in the blog, miraculous gifts no longer exist today.
TAMMY
Jonathan, I loved this article! Thank you for putting into words these encouraging thoughts to strive to be more for the Lord. They describe my situation also. I have some very talented Christian family members and friends, and being that I was SO shy by nature, it has taken me a long time to stretch myself in order to grow in service to Him. Usually, I am WAY out of my comfort zone. But that’s ok, I have found that our brothers and sisters are quite gracious and loving and will help us along the way. Thanks again, my brother!
Thank you, Tammy. I think most will find that it is typically only fear or shyness that is holding us back, and not really a lack of ability. Once we break from our comfort zone a couple times, we realize that’s it not as bad as we initially thought.
Tammy Gravelle
Jonathan, I think that is one of the most complete answers to this difficult passage I have ever heard! Makes total sense. Great job as always!
Thanks, Tammy. I know I struggled with this passage for a long time, so I had to share with others what I learned that finally made it make sense with the rest of Scripture. Please feel free to share with others who may struggle with it.
Do you address this as a figurative idea about Satan today, or do you mean this as a literal enemy, adversary we must be constantly on the watch for?
Do you think Satan is on the prowl today, literally seeking to devour someone, anyone? Does he have power over the whole world, or does the world still sway at the influence he’s had in the past, the power to literally cause calamity and take over a person’s will?
Jonathan MedleyPost author
Hi Joe. Thanks so much for bringing that up because that’s a very important question. I will readily admit that I don’t fully understand the way that Satan interacts with our lives, much in the same way that I will admit I don’t fully understand how God’s providence works in our lives. Do I believe that Satan is physically a person walking around that is waiting to attack me on a street corner? No. Much in the same way that I believe Peter’s reference to Satan as being a roaring lion is a visual metaphor (I Peter 5:8). I do, however, believe that Satan is real and still has influence over this world today. I get this from passages like John 8:44, Luke 8:12, II Corinthians 11:13-15, II Corinthians 4:3-4, Ephesians 2:1-3, Hebrews 2:14, and James 4:7. Each of these passages speak of the devil as being a real entity of some type and not simply an idea or a concept that represents evil, and I have no reason to believe those passages are speaking from a figurative standpoint.
Thank you for a sober and frank assessment. I made much the same point in a sermon from Romans 1 two weeks ago in reference to the anthem controversy and the church shooting. I asked which story had upset them more, and why. It’s part of a series on “Living the Faith We Share.”
Don Wood
The opposite of my view makes America in constant rebellion against the Crown’s “divine right of kings,” and denies that the government we have in America’s Constitution is God-given, Romans 13:1-2. Interpreting verses 4-5 of “servant” or “minister” of Constitutional necessity means we as individuals must either protect our own lives, liberties and property or hire the job done who would protect those rights in our names. If they usurp or steal their authority from us, WE are ultimately responsible for not firing those worthless people, Romans 13:4, cf Luke 22:36. God gave us our form of government, the most unique in history, and He expects us to take care of it. Ben Franklin told the lady that they had given us a “Republic” IF WE COULD KEEP IT. We have NOT or this challenge of Christians bearing arms wouldn’t even have come up. Our responsibility should be posted to the door of the church more than any other place, because “This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.” 1 Jn 1:5. We must not simply and irresponsibly lay down our arms or Constitution if any public servant desires under whatever pretexts to remove them from us, because that would require us to first go to war / arms against them! See J.B. Clarke in this perilous time. https://youtu.be/mPoD6GE38fY
Thank you for sharing the link to brother BJ Clarke’s lesson on the relationship between the Christian and the Civil Government. I recommend everyone go watch it. I will, however, point out that nothing in this article contradicts anything brother Clarke said. In fact, his lesson never even mentioned gun control or the 2nd Amendment. The right to own a gun has been given to us by our government (not by God), so that means our government can also take away that right through the legal process of passing laws (I Samuel 8:10-18). If that were to happen, Romans 13 mandates I obey that law. I find no where in Scripture that allows me to ignore a law or blatantly disobey it because I don’t like it. I do believe our government has been given to us by God (Romans 13:1), just like I believe the governments of Australia and Japan have been given by God (Romans 13:1 applies to them just like us). Both of those countries have very restrictive gun laws compared to the US, yet Christians in those countries are expected to follow their respective laws.
Don Wood
Brother, if you believe, as you said, in obeying the law of the land for the Lord’s sake, and that Rom 13:1-2 admits that the government we have was given to us by God, then why would you ever say that the 2nd Amendment was given to us by the government instead of God? The video was misplaced. It was for the election, but applied in respect of obeying the law of God which means upholding the 2nd Amendment as much as we do the rest of the Scriptures.
When I said the right to bear arms is given by our government and not God, I meant that the Bible never says “thou shalt own a gun.” Honestly, that’s the point of the entire article. Since the government gave that law, it can also take it away, and we would be scripturally bound to that new law.
Jill
Thank you! Very true. The other day we heard someone say in a country song on the radio, “You only live one time”. Two of my kids immediately said, “No you don’t! Not if you’re a Christian anyway! You live forever!!” Such faith from a child.
As I started to read the lyrics of this hymn, I was so overwhelmed with how emotional I became, to understand the meaning of this old song not only brings tears to the eyes, but a heart of repentance, because of my sins He died to give me a way of life.
Thanks, Jack. You’ve been a great influence to me!
Terry Coomer
Jonathan, what a powerful and moving story. Thanks for your courage to tell this. I pray that someone struggling with this will read your story and reach out to someone. God is so much bigger than our problems, lean on him and trust him. He can help us through all our struggles.
Thank you! I pray it benefits others as much as it does me.
Terry Coomer
Jonathan thanks so much for sharing your insight. Is an Elder I can speak with firsthand knowledge of countless sleepless nights. Setting with families that are facing some of the most difficult times of there lives. Sickness, death, bad decisions, and just struggling to understand why things happen the way they do. Some may wonder why or how anyone could desire this added burden. A former Elder I served under explained it like this, what parent ever desired to set up all night with a sick child? What parent desired to set up with a crying child? What parent ever said I cant wait to change a diaper? None that I know of, but they desired to be a parent and all that would bring. The big hug, the kiss on the cheek, seeing there eyes light up when you walk into a room, watching them grow up to be productive adults, faithfully serving God. That what it means to be an Elder. Helping someone bare the pain, sharing in there sadness and happiness, but ultimately living there life for God. That is why we do what we do.
This is a fantastic post! Thanks, Kim, for these great thoughts. They will help not only preachers’ wives, but also any wife!!
Kim
Thanks Donna! I don’t actually see myself as being the “preacher’s wife,” but rather just a Christian woman who happens to be married to the preacher! It’s a little different focus & perspective!
Thank you, Kim. I have passed this on to my girlfriend, who is planning to marry a preacher. 😉
Sandy Puckett
Great article and, like Donna said, great for any wife!
David McMurtry
Kim, this is certainly well written, with a lot of thought and measured dimension built into it; for some points you probably harnessed their emotional quotient to stay on point- you probably know as much as anyone that dedicated service creates its own land mines in today’s culture.
You are correct that submission is not a popular topic, especially since the church’s centuries-old perspective is driving women and young people away in droves. Indoctrination being the primary instructional tool has not allowed appropriate debate on women’s roles in the 21st century, a debate the church would lose in a Scriptural dialog. May I suggest submission to each other is the gospel’s intent, while the law’s intent was otherwise as Paul tried to convince gentiles. For any congregation that does not allow women to serve communion when there is no Scriptural reason for either Jew or gentile, they need to assess their position. Just a thought.
Kim Higginbotham
David, thank you for taking the time to respond. However, I disagree with your observation. I assume that your reference to Jew/Gentile comes from Galatians 3:28. To use this passage to deny role distinctions, is to make the same mistake that Korah made in Numbers 16. He thought that since all of God’s people were holy, they ought to be able to do the same thing. He found out his argument was wrong. Equality and value have nothing to do with roles. While it is true that in Christ, there is neither male/female, Jew/Gentile, bond/freeman, there are gender-based role distinctions. Failure to acknowledge this has one making the very same argument that Korah made.
Lysa Roland
Awesome article, nice way to to focus our talents … 😉
Melissa Walton-Shirley
That was absolutely beautiful Kim
Kim Higginbotham
Thank you so much!
Brenda Ramsey
Great insights. Thank you Luke for sharing your abilities with us.
Dorris Biggar
Well said, Emily. It is a constant struggle to remember that all means all. I am so glad that I am surrounded by sisters whip are willing to help keep me focused on those things above.
Gina Key
Great article, Luke❣️
Nigel Magwere
Its interesting keep sharing the Gospel of our father in heaven. Its true that most of us like our jobs more than the Work of one bless ours with those jobs.
Zack Opheim
We definitely need more fellowship and hearts knit together. But I wonder if the problem doesn’t go deeper.
What if the problem of weak fellowship is itself a result of no church discipline? Could it be sort of a ‘which came first, the chicken or the egg,’ type of problem? Are people not really taking the command to love one another seriously because they were converted to a Christianity that does not take discipleship seriously? If we don’t take the command to discipline seriously, why would we take the command to fellowship seriously? If half of us aren’t really led by the Spirit, well then there’s not really much “unity of the Spirit” (Eph 4) there anyway.
But another thing to consider is that church discipline works 100% of the time when we do it the way Jesus taught. This is true in that the success of church discipline shouldn’t only be measured by backslidden Christians repenting, but it should also be measured by the holiness of the church. Church discipline is for the holiness of the church, while also for the salvation of rebellious Christians. This is why Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5:5–7 that “I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?
7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.”
And if the church isn’t holy anyway, then why would they want to act like Christians? Fellowship is sweetest and most meaningful when we share in holiness.
That’s a great question to ponder on. The low impact of church discipline and the lack of true discipleship definitely feed off each other, and can become a quick downward spiral. And I agree that church discipline always works if done the way Christ intended. The church just messes it up a lot, and the part that I see messed up the most is the family feeling of the congregation. Too few Christian are real and open when with their Christian family, so no one truly gets close to each other.
Lewis Lineberry
I greatly appreciate your perspective. I attended a congregation for over 20 years that made the Lords Supper a part of the worship service on Sunday Evening. We moved to a congregation about 20 years ago that sings a song as those who want to participate in the Lords Supper leave the service and go to another room. I know this ok but you have reminded me how wonderful it was when we were all a part of it on Sunday Evening. Thank you 🙏
Thank you for those kind words, Lewis. I’m actually in the exact same situation you have described. We attended a congregation for many years where it was offered on Sunday evening in the auditorium with all present. We now attend at a much larger congregation where it is offered in a separate room at the end of services. I’m going to try and focus on being more mindful of what others are doing during that time instead of simply turning my mind off to it since I’m not present.
Thankful to call all of you my brethren, my family. Love you and know the kind of man that you are, because I know the kind of men that your father and grandfather are.
Website design, hosting, and management provided by Azimuth Media.
Great article!
Jack Honeycutt
Thanks!
An ill-reasoned and unoriginal post, offering human conclusions as biblical truth. A little more exploration of scripture, and understanding the difference between scripture and the writer’s conclusions about scripture would be useful.
Thank you for your feedback. I would like to hear your comments or feedback about whether or not miracles still exist today, using Scripture of course to draw the conclusion. From what I read, and supported with Scripture in the blog, miraculous gifts no longer exist today.
Jonathan, I loved this article! Thank you for putting into words these encouraging thoughts to strive to be more for the Lord. They describe my situation also. I have some very talented Christian family members and friends, and being that I was SO shy by nature, it has taken me a long time to stretch myself in order to grow in service to Him. Usually, I am WAY out of my comfort zone. But that’s ok, I have found that our brothers and sisters are quite gracious and loving and will help us along the way. Thanks again, my brother!
Thank you, Tammy. I think most will find that it is typically only fear or shyness that is holding us back, and not really a lack of ability. Once we break from our comfort zone a couple times, we realize that’s it not as bad as we initially thought.
Jonathan, I think that is one of the most complete answers to this difficult passage I have ever heard! Makes total sense. Great job as always!
Thanks, Tammy. I know I struggled with this passage for a long time, so I had to share with others what I learned that finally made it make sense with the rest of Scripture. Please feel free to share with others who may struggle with it.
Wow! What an example! Excellent.
Thanks! It was an eye-opening experience.
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You’re blessed with capacity to write amazing material, it’s brightens my day, thanks!
Thank you. That is very kind.
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Great article!
Thanks, brother!
Do you address this as a figurative idea about Satan today, or do you mean this as a literal enemy, adversary we must be constantly on the watch for?
Do you think Satan is on the prowl today, literally seeking to devour someone, anyone? Does he have power over the whole world, or does the world still sway at the influence he’s had in the past, the power to literally cause calamity and take over a person’s will?
Hi Joe. Thanks so much for bringing that up because that’s a very important question. I will readily admit that I don’t fully understand the way that Satan interacts with our lives, much in the same way that I will admit I don’t fully understand how God’s providence works in our lives. Do I believe that Satan is physically a person walking around that is waiting to attack me on a street corner? No. Much in the same way that I believe Peter’s reference to Satan as being a roaring lion is a visual metaphor (I Peter 5:8). I do, however, believe that Satan is real and still has influence over this world today. I get this from passages like John 8:44, Luke 8:12, II Corinthians 11:13-15, II Corinthians 4:3-4, Ephesians 2:1-3, Hebrews 2:14, and James 4:7. Each of these passages speak of the devil as being a real entity of some type and not simply an idea or a concept that represents evil, and I have no reason to believe those passages are speaking from a figurative standpoint.
Amazing Blog here! If you are the one who jumped directly into the comment section, do give a read above. It’s beautifully written.
Great article! So true!
Thank you for a sober and frank assessment. I made much the same point in a sermon from Romans 1 two weeks ago in reference to the anthem controversy and the church shooting. I asked which story had upset them more, and why. It’s part of a series on “Living the Faith We Share.”
The opposite of my view makes America in constant rebellion against the Crown’s “divine right of kings,” and denies that the government we have in America’s Constitution is God-given, Romans 13:1-2. Interpreting verses 4-5 of “servant” or “minister” of Constitutional necessity means we as individuals must either protect our own lives, liberties and property or hire the job done who would protect those rights in our names. If they usurp or steal their authority from us, WE are ultimately responsible for not firing those worthless people, Romans 13:4, cf Luke 22:36. God gave us our form of government, the most unique in history, and He expects us to take care of it. Ben Franklin told the lady that they had given us a “Republic” IF WE COULD KEEP IT. We have NOT or this challenge of Christians bearing arms wouldn’t even have come up. Our responsibility should be posted to the door of the church more than any other place, because “This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.” 1 Jn 1:5. We must not simply and irresponsibly lay down our arms or Constitution if any public servant desires under whatever pretexts to remove them from us, because that would require us to first go to war / arms against them! See J.B. Clarke in this perilous time. https://youtu.be/mPoD6GE38fY
Thank you for sharing the link to brother BJ Clarke’s lesson on the relationship between the Christian and the Civil Government. I recommend everyone go watch it. I will, however, point out that nothing in this article contradicts anything brother Clarke said. In fact, his lesson never even mentioned gun control or the 2nd Amendment. The right to own a gun has been given to us by our government (not by God), so that means our government can also take away that right through the legal process of passing laws (I Samuel 8:10-18). If that were to happen, Romans 13 mandates I obey that law. I find no where in Scripture that allows me to ignore a law or blatantly disobey it because I don’t like it. I do believe our government has been given to us by God (Romans 13:1), just like I believe the governments of Australia and Japan have been given by God (Romans 13:1 applies to them just like us). Both of those countries have very restrictive gun laws compared to the US, yet Christians in those countries are expected to follow their respective laws.
Brother, if you believe, as you said, in obeying the law of the land for the Lord’s sake, and that Rom 13:1-2 admits that the government we have was given to us by God, then why would you ever say that the 2nd Amendment was given to us by the government instead of God? The video was misplaced. It was for the election, but applied in respect of obeying the law of God which means upholding the 2nd Amendment as much as we do the rest of the Scriptures.
When I said the right to bear arms is given by our government and not God, I meant that the Bible never says “thou shalt own a gun.” Honestly, that’s the point of the entire article. Since the government gave that law, it can also take it away, and we would be scripturally bound to that new law.
Thank you! Very true. The other day we heard someone say in a country song on the radio, “You only live one time”. Two of my kids immediately said, “No you don’t! Not if you’re a Christian anyway! You live forever!!” Such faith from a child.
Love that! That just proves that kids are always paying attention and thinking through things.
Excellent article and most encouraging. I too know what Paul felt and described in this passage. Keep up the good work!
Thanks, Alan.
As I started to read the lyrics of this hymn, I was so overwhelmed with how emotional I became, to understand the meaning of this old song not only brings tears to the eyes, but a heart of repentance, because of my sins He died to give me a way of life.
Thanks for this.
You are a good writer and a great example!
Thanks, Jack. You’ve been a great influence to me!
Jonathan, what a powerful and moving story. Thanks for your courage to tell this. I pray that someone struggling with this will read your story and reach out to someone. God is so much bigger than our problems, lean on him and trust him. He can help us through all our struggles.
That is very kind of you. Thank you.
Good article! You are a great writer my brother.
Thank you! I pray it benefits others as much as it does me.
Jonathan thanks so much for sharing your insight. Is an Elder I can speak with firsthand knowledge of countless sleepless nights. Setting with families that are facing some of the most difficult times of there lives. Sickness, death, bad decisions, and just struggling to understand why things happen the way they do. Some may wonder why or how anyone could desire this added burden. A former Elder I served under explained it like this, what parent ever desired to set up all night with a sick child? What parent desired to set up with a crying child? What parent ever said I cant wait to change a diaper? None that I know of, but they desired to be a parent and all that would bring. The big hug, the kiss on the cheek, seeing there eyes light up when you walk into a room, watching them grow up to be productive adults, faithfully serving God. That what it means to be an Elder. Helping someone bare the pain, sharing in there sadness and happiness, but ultimately living there life for God. That is why we do what we do.
Wow. This is enlightening.
Amen!
Thanks, Regina!
This is a fantastic post! Thanks, Kim, for these great thoughts. They will help not only preachers’ wives, but also any wife!!
Thanks Donna! I don’t actually see myself as being the “preacher’s wife,” but rather just a Christian woman who happens to be married to the preacher! It’s a little different focus & perspective!
Thank you, Kim. I have passed this on to my girlfriend, who is planning to marry a preacher. 😉
Great article and, like Donna said, great for any wife!
Kim, this is certainly well written, with a lot of thought and measured dimension built into it; for some points you probably harnessed their emotional quotient to stay on point- you probably know as much as anyone that dedicated service creates its own land mines in today’s culture.
You are correct that submission is not a popular topic, especially since the church’s centuries-old perspective is driving women and young people away in droves. Indoctrination being the primary instructional tool has not allowed appropriate debate on women’s roles in the 21st century, a debate the church would lose in a Scriptural dialog. May I suggest submission to each other is the gospel’s intent, while the law’s intent was otherwise as Paul tried to convince gentiles. For any congregation that does not allow women to serve communion when there is no Scriptural reason for either Jew or gentile, they need to assess their position. Just a thought.
David, thank you for taking the time to respond. However, I disagree with your observation. I assume that your reference to Jew/Gentile comes from Galatians 3:28. To use this passage to deny role distinctions, is to make the same mistake that Korah made in Numbers 16. He thought that since all of God’s people were holy, they ought to be able to do the same thing. He found out his argument was wrong. Equality and value have nothing to do with roles. While it is true that in Christ, there is neither male/female, Jew/Gentile, bond/freeman, there are gender-based role distinctions. Failure to acknowledge this has one making the very same argument that Korah made.
Awesome article, nice way to to focus our talents … 😉
That was absolutely beautiful Kim
Thank you so much!
Great insights. Thank you Luke for sharing your abilities with us.
Well said, Emily. It is a constant struggle to remember that all means all. I am so glad that I am surrounded by sisters whip are willing to help keep me focused on those things above.
Great article, Luke❣️
Its interesting keep sharing the Gospel of our father in heaven. Its true that most of us like our jobs more than the Work of one bless ours with those jobs.
We definitely need more fellowship and hearts knit together. But I wonder if the problem doesn’t go deeper.
What if the problem of weak fellowship is itself a result of no church discipline? Could it be sort of a ‘which came first, the chicken or the egg,’ type of problem? Are people not really taking the command to love one another seriously because they were converted to a Christianity that does not take discipleship seriously? If we don’t take the command to discipline seriously, why would we take the command to fellowship seriously? If half of us aren’t really led by the Spirit, well then there’s not really much “unity of the Spirit” (Eph 4) there anyway.
But another thing to consider is that church discipline works 100% of the time when we do it the way Jesus taught. This is true in that the success of church discipline shouldn’t only be measured by backslidden Christians repenting, but it should also be measured by the holiness of the church. Church discipline is for the holiness of the church, while also for the salvation of rebellious Christians. This is why Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5:5–7 that “I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?
7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.”
And if the church isn’t holy anyway, then why would they want to act like Christians? Fellowship is sweetest and most meaningful when we share in holiness.
That’s a great question to ponder on. The low impact of church discipline and the lack of true discipleship definitely feed off each other, and can become a quick downward spiral. And I agree that church discipline always works if done the way Christ intended. The church just messes it up a lot, and the part that I see messed up the most is the family feeling of the congregation. Too few Christian are real and open when with their Christian family, so no one truly gets close to each other.
I greatly appreciate your perspective. I attended a congregation for over 20 years that made the Lords Supper a part of the worship service on Sunday Evening. We moved to a congregation about 20 years ago that sings a song as those who want to participate in the Lords Supper leave the service and go to another room. I know this ok but you have reminded me how wonderful it was when we were all a part of it on Sunday Evening. Thank you 🙏
Thank you for those kind words, Lewis. I’m actually in the exact same situation you have described. We attended a congregation for many years where it was offered on Sunday evening in the auditorium with all present. We now attend at a much larger congregation where it is offered in a separate room at the end of services. I’m going to try and focus on being more mindful of what others are doing during that time instead of simply turning my mind off to it since I’m not present.
Thankful to call all of you my brethren, my family. Love you and know the kind of man that you are, because I know the kind of men that your father and grandfather are.